Wednesday, December 24, 2008

Learn Chinese online - Chinese Lesson




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Living in China


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Search took 0.06 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: robert

Forum: Speaking and Listening 16th April 2005, 06:54 AM

Replies: 20

Hardest sound to pronounce?

Views: 6,838

Posted By robert


I started two months ago. I need a second tongue...

I started two months ago. I need a second tongue now.

My first language is Dutch and that seems to make it easyer for some sounds.

The best help is my teacher. her patience is just wonderful. It is...



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Tuesday, December 23, 2008

Free Chinese Lesson - Chinese Lesson




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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: robert

Forum: Speaking and Listening 15th April 2005, 12:55 PM

Replies: 43

Why Do You Learn Chinese?(ple help me with the survey)

Views: 6,910

Posted By robert


last year I was in China and felt terrible for...

last year I was in China and felt terrible for not being able to communicate properly. I speak
several languages and thought I should try to pick up one more.
My partner is Chinese but we speak...



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Monday, December 22, 2008

Learn Chinese - Chinese Lesson




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Search took 0.03 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: Laska

Forum: Speaking and Listening 28th March 2006, 09:11 AM

Replies: 38

dashan 大山, Igor(from taiwan) and any others who have disgustingly good chinese

Views: 8,318

Posted By Laska


For all the English teaching that is being done...

For all the English teaching that is being done in China, there are actually very few people that
are reaching the level of competency required for translation, interpretation or for really...



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Sunday, December 21, 2008

Pnyin - Chinese Lesson




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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: yingguoguy

Forum: Speaking and Listening 28th February 2006, 11:24 AM

Replies: 49

Tips for beginners?

Views: 5,746

Posted By yingguoguy


I'm in the same boat, having started to teach in...

I'm in the same boat, having started to teach in a college a few months ago, and agree with the
point being made. The schools tend to be very over-protective of their foreign teachers, and I've
found...



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Saturday, December 20, 2008

Learn Mandarin online - Chinese Lesson




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Showing results 1 to 5 of 5
Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: in_lab

Forum: Speaking and Listening 22nd July 2005, 05:27 PM

Replies: 52

Pinyin used in Taiwan?

Views: 4,972

Posted By in_lab


My statement was based on the journalistic...

My statement was based on the journalistic principal of "generalize wildly based on personal
experience." It's ten minutes before I go home, so I don't have time to look for any respectable...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 22nd July 2005, 03:10 PM

Replies: 52

Pinyin used in Taiwan?

Views: 4,972

Posted By in_lab


Most people, Chinese or non-Chinese, haven't...

Most people, Chinese or non-Chinese, haven't totally "learned" the keyboard layout. They have to
look at the keyboard while they type. I mean that for a lot of Taiwanese (my guess is most) they
are...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 22nd July 2005, 09:28 AM

Replies: 52

Pinyin used in Taiwan?

Views: 4,972

Posted By in_lab


An average online gamer computer user in Taiwan...

An average online gamer computer user in Taiwan knows the zhuyin keyboard layout better than the
the letters, so it doesn't take him extra time to learn the zhuyin so much as it takes extra time
to...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 20th July 2005, 09:25 AM

Replies: 52

Pinyin used in Taiwan?

Views: 4,972

Posted By in_lab


1. That would allow people to write in Arabic, or...

1. That would allow people to write in Arabic, or other scripts that would be useless to the
people that are processing the form.
2. Writing "Li Zhan" is not a non-chinese name, but it's acceptable.



Forum: Speaking and Listening 19th July 2005, 06:23 PM

Replies: 52

Pinyin used in Taiwan?

Views: 4,972

Posted By in_lab


I agree "English" isn't appropriate....

I agree "English" isn't appropriate. What should it say? Name (written in Latin alphabet)?
International name? :-?



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Friday, December 19, 2008

Chinese Character - Chinese Lesson




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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: atitarev

Forum: Speaking and Listening 15th February 2007, 07:15 AM

Replies: 61

most embarrassing moment while learning Chinese

Views: 17,258

Posted By atitarev


Re: most embarrassing moment while learning Chinese

In Chinese class I once said 有了, meaning “I got it" or "finished the task". The teacher
laughed and said that this is said by women when they get pregnant :) :oops:

It was a good laugh and we...



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Thursday, December 18, 2008

Learn mandarin - Chinese Lesson




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Showing results 1 to 12 of 12
Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: nipponman

Forum: Speaking and Listening 24th March 2006, 12:32 AM

Replies: 62

Listening Exercise (and 成语)

Views: 4,508

Posted By nipponman


Aww, I must've missed that. Good look semantic...

Aww, I must've missed that. Good look semantic nuance



Forum: Speaking and Listening 23rd March 2006, 09:51 PM

Replies: 62

Listening Exercise (and 成语)

Views: 4,508

Posted By nipponman


Thanks bomaci, your additions make sense.

Thanks bomaci, your additions make sense.



Forum: Speaking and Listening 22nd March 2006, 08:35 AM

Replies: 62

Listening Exercise (and 成语)

Views: 4,508

Posted By nipponman


Ok, I gave this one a...

Ok, I gave this one a try

走馬看花

走馬是人騎著馬跑的意思。看花﹐﹖(釆國)是真的看花。這裡花是這兒﹖(擬�
��)的意思。走馬看花就是一個人騎著馬﹐很快地看一個﹖(擬人)的意思。﹖(�
��前)有一個教會教會(﹖﹖)的人。因為他的腿有一(gar)瘸。一直找不到一個漂
亮女人做他的妻子。他(you gar dao qi2), 就擎他的朋友﹖...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 21st March 2006, 09:52 PM

Replies: 62

Listening Exercise (and 成语)

Views: 4,508

Posted By nipponman


Then I guess I'll have to change what I think zi4...

Then I guess I'll have to change what I think zi4 sounds like:-? .


Thanks for all your help semantic nuance, I'll try to do another one tonight if I get the time.
P.s. Hashirikata, this thread was...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 21st March 2006, 07:33 PM

Replies: 62

Listening Exercise (and 成语)

Views: 4,508

Posted By nipponman


I noticed that too (to my utter amazement) and I...

I noticed that too (to my utter amazement) and I kept searching for an appropriate feng2li4, but
couldn't find one.

For some reason 自 sounded like si4 to me. :-?


This structure makes sense, but...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 21st March 2006, 08:53 AM

Replies: 62

Listening Exercise (and 成语)

Views: 4,508

Posted By nipponman


Okay, I've been talking about doin this for a...

Okay, I've been talking about doin this for a while now, hopefully no ones done this one before,
this is about contradicting yourself basically, saying your shield is the strongest in the
world,...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 16th March 2006, 08:50 AM

Replies: 62

Listening Exercise (and 成语)

Views: 4,508

Posted By nipponman


Hmm, interesting nei1:mrgreen:

Hmm, interesting nei1:mrgreen:



Forum: Speaking and Listening 16th March 2006, 01:24 AM

Replies: 62

Listening Exercise (and 成语)

Views: 4,508

Posted By nipponman


Interesting, I hope hashirikata won't mind taking...

Interesting, I hope hashirikata won't mind taking the focus away from this thread for a second
but, how is it pronounced? I can't read zhu yin:oops:



Forum: Speaking and Listening 15th March 2006, 11:57 PM

Replies: 62

Listening Exercise (and 成语)

Views: 4,508

Posted By nipponman


Heh:mrgreen: , ㄋㄟyou3 shen2me yi4si?

Heh:mrgreen: ,


ㄋㄟyou3 shen2me yi4si?



Forum: Speaking and Listening 15th March 2006, 07:35 PM

Replies: 62

Listening Exercise (and 成语)

Views: 4,508

Posted By nipponman


semantic nuance, You can't just take all the...

semantic nuance,

You can't just take all the fables like that! Leave some for the rest of us! sheesh:mrgreen:
::Just kidding:: good work!



Forum: Speaking and Listening 15th March 2006, 01:50 AM

Replies: 62

Listening Exercise (and 成语)

Views: 4,508

Posted By nipponman


I tried the fifth, and I think 13th, but never...

I tried the fifth, and I think 13th, but never got around to asking any questions, I'm on it now
though!



Forum: Speaking and Listening 14th March 2006, 09:34 PM

Replies: 62

Listening Exercise (and 成语)

Views: 4,508

Posted By nipponman


I knew that chengyu looked familiar!:mrgreen:...

I knew that chengyu looked familiar!:mrgreen:

Seriously though, I should listen to those more often



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Wednesday, December 17, 2008

Learning Chinese - Chinese Lesson




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Showing results 1 to 12 of 12
Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: nnt

Forum: Speaking and Listening 4th May 2004, 12:36 PM

Replies: 62

Chinese roots in other languages

Views: 7,944

Posted By nnt


See the link here:...

See the link here:
http://www.kanjistep.com/en/about/



They not only copied the script to transcribe Japanese words, but also borrowed 100% (not just
80%...) of Chinese vocabulary, although 90% of...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 2nd May 2004, 12:07 PM

Replies: 62

Chinese roots in other languages

Views: 7,944

Posted By nnt


You're not Japanese, how do you know a Japanese...

You're not Japanese, how do you know a Japanese doesn't know ancient chinese pronunciation :wink: ?

(See here for a similar story:
http://www.chinapage.com/story/fish.html
)



English and German...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 1st May 2004, 04:53 PM

Replies: 62

Chinese roots in other languages

Views: 7,944

Posted By nnt


It's Hán Vit (Chinese pronounced Vietnamese...

It's Hán Vit (Chinese pronounced Vietnamese way). You can take any Chinese text, modern or
classic, and pronounce it Vietnamese way: it's Sino-Vietnamese.
A modern Chinese text in Hán Vit,...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 1st May 2004, 04:13 PM

Replies: 62

Chinese roots in other languages

Views: 7,944

Posted By nnt


We should distinguish Hán Vit words and Hán Vit...

We should distinguish Hán Vit words and Hán Vit as Sino-Vietnamese (Chinese language with
Vietnamese pronunciation).
Vietnamese do not "speak" Hán Vit, but Vietnamese vocabulary is full of Hán...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 30th April 2004, 12:46 PM

Replies: 62

Chinese roots in other languages

Views: 7,944

Posted By nnt


I've found an interesting link (Big5 code)about...

I've found an interesting link (Big5 code)about William H. Baxter:

http://www.geocities.com/sgoertzen/Chinese/mcb5.htm




Li Bai's rhyme words:
明 [微庚開三] ming2 (minh) < mjaeng 'bright'
...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 28th April 2004, 01:54 PM

Replies: 62

Chinese roots in other languages

Views: 7,944

Posted By nnt


shibo77: Could you find a reconstruction of...

shibo77:

Could you find a reconstruction of Tang's era pronunciation of the above text? I think it would be
even more interesting than the E-zhou pronunciation (from which all variants have much...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 28th April 2004, 09:06 AM

Replies: 62

Chinese roots in other languages

Views: 7,944

Posted By nnt


道可道, 非常道. 名可名, 非常名. 無, 名天地之始; 有, 名萬物之母. In Han...

道可道, 非常道. 名可名, 非常名. 無, 名天地之始; 有, 名萬物之母.

In Han Viêt:

Dao kha dao, phi thng dao. Danh kha danh, phi thng danh. V^o, danh thiên
dia chi thuy, hu, danh van v^at chi m^au.

(There is...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 27th April 2004, 02:57 AM

Replies: 62

Chinese roots in other languages

Views: 7,944

Posted By nnt


39degN and shibo77 : As linguists say: "The...

39degN and shibo77 :
As linguists say:
"The proof of a pudding is is in the eating" :wink: (I love pudding theory...)
So I'm waiting for your poem in Classical E Zhou pronunciation, in order to...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 26th April 2004, 03:05 PM

Replies: 62

Chinese roots in other languages

Views: 7,944

Posted By nnt


You needn't... You just have to learn Vietnamese...

You needn't... You just have to learn Vietnamese "Pinyin" (Han Viêt) to read Chinese texts
Vietnamese way.



It seems to me that the Vietnamese pronunciation of 法律 (pháp lut with ph=f) is closest...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 10th April 2004, 03:38 AM

Replies: 62

Chinese roots in other languages

Views: 7,944

Posted By nnt


I think that initially, they adopted the script...

I think that initially, they adopted the script and the pronunciation (although with some foreign
accent, but certainly without the mandarin's 儿 :wink: ). For Classical Chinese was, at least
in...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 9th April 2004, 05:02 PM

Replies: 62

Chinese roots in other languages

Views: 7,944

Posted By nnt


About relationship between Classical Chinese,...

About relationship between Classical Chinese, spoken Chinese and Vietnamese, you can see this link:
http://www.cjvlang.com/Writing/writsys/writviet.html


more particularly:



I think was is common...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 8th April 2004, 04:33 AM

Replies: 62

Chinese roots in other languages

Views: 7,944

Posted By nnt


Lu Yi Si: You just forget that Thai peoples...

Lu Yi Si:
You just forget that Thai peoples (including Tay in Vietnam and Laotians in Laos) came from Yunnan
around the 12th-13th century, so it's no surprise that some words may be borrowed from...



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Tuesday, December 16, 2008

Pnyin - Chinese Lesson




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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: gamerfu

Forum: Speaking and Listening 4th January 2007, 10:36 PM

Replies: 63

Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

Views: 10,684

Posted By gamerfu


Re: Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

I would ask Chinesepod first, if you could make a website with VideoChinesepod. I have run into a
bit of trouble with similar domain names.

Honestly, Western actors are okay. A very famous college...



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Monday, December 15, 2008

Chinese Pinyin - Chinese Lesson




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Search took 0.02 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: calibre2001

Forum: Speaking and Listening 1st February 2007, 06:11 AM

Replies: 71

Steve Kaufmann - How good is he?

Views: 9,086

Posted By calibre2001


Re: Steve Kaufmann - How good is he?

Steve speaks good Chinese. Definitely not native sounding, but it makes me wonder why people
aspire to be so? Fluency does not equal being native sounding. As someone here once pointed out,
natives...



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Sunday, December 14, 2008

Free Chinese Lesson - Chinese Lesson




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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: serpentino

Forum: Speaking and Listening 14th February 2006, 10:55 PM

Replies: 77

which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By serpentino


Shanghaise is fun to listen, but hell when you...

Shanghaise is fun to listen, but hell when you try to speak it. I agree with the notion that this
dialect/language is "economical" - well, what is NOT in Shanghai? ;-) It is economical up to the...



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Saturday, December 13, 2008

Chinese Speaking - Chinese Lesson




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Forum: Speaking and Listening 26th January 2006, 09:06 PM

Replies: 82

How could I get better at tones?

Views: 18,328

Posted By stephanhodges


I agree that listening repeatedly helps to master...

I agree that listening repeatedly helps to master tones without thinking about the tones.
Especially with multiple tone sequences.

I would like to add, that I have found it very important to also...



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Thursday, December 11, 2008

Chinese Speaking - Breakthrough in learning Characters? -








> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Breakthrough in learning Characters?
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Page 1 of 5 1 23 > »






waynewalter -

Tienzen Gong has a website called http://www.chinese-word-roots.org/

I was reading it and was enthralled by the logic of what he says. So I called and spoke with him
personally. He was very kind and polite.

But I'm frustrated that 1) he sold out of his book "Chinese Word Roots and Grammar" and 2) that it
was mainly in Chinese. He said in 2 months he'll have a new version that is for English speakers.

He's a professor that claims to have identified exactly 220 root components to all Chinese
characters. He says all characters are formed in various combinations of the same roots.

Additionally, he identified the correct meanings to all these root components (which often have a
different meaning when used separately as a character). And he says some of the ancient texts
which explain the meanings had errors which he discovered the corrections for. That makes is far
easier to discern meanings from characters.

He claims that by understanding the meanings of all the components, it's a smaller and much
simpler step to learn thousands of characters and evening correctly reading the meaning of not yet
learned characters just by reading the root components that form the characters.

He claims that in 6 months or less a Chinese learner can learn and RETAIN many times more
characters than even native Chinese.

That claim seems preposterous but reading his website makes it all sounds quite logical.

Here's my questions:

A) Does anyone have a copy of his last book? I WANT it badly.

B) Has anyone read it or have any comments on his website and claims?

Please advise. If it's true it will be an amazing breakthrough! Or, will it? Has someone else
already identified all the root components of every character? If so, where is that BOOK.

I want to learn the root components and their individual meanings FIRST before learning characters
built up from them.

Please advise!!

Sincerely,
Wayne



Pleco Software Learn Chinese with our Dictionaries for Palm and Pocket PC.
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renzhe -

Could be interesting, but I don't know how much of a breakthrough it really is.

It is well known that most Chinese characters are composed from 200+ radicals and common
components.

There are also systems (like Heisig) which teach mnemonics for characters based on parts, which
also claim to teach thousands of characters in 6 months - 1 year timeframe (check the thread on
"Remembering the Hanzi").

Many people start learning characters by first memorising the common radicals, whether they use
Heisig's method or not. Most people pick up on the phonetic parts of the characters and use it to
strengthen the memorisation process.

Sounds like he is offering a combination of these. Should be interesting, but not necessarily
earth-shattering. Fat disclaimer for not having read the book, of course, take it with a grain of
salt.

EDIT: I am, of course, referring to the memorisation of characters. I'm not saying that his work
doesn't have linguistic significance.










stoney -

"Most people pick up on the phonetic parts of the characters and use it to strengthen the
memorization process."

could someone elaborate on the "phonetic" parts of characters.










muyongshi -

A good amount of characters are made up of two parts: one that carries meaning, and one that
carries sound. You cannot always guess the pronunciation due to the part that carries the sound
but it may definitely help you remember it later on. Also not all characters are like this and
they way each character carries the sound may be different so there is no general rule that we can
give that would help make this easier. It's usually either just knowing the radicals and making
the connections yourself or having someone tell you 'this part carries the sound'.










imron -

e.g. 妈 码 玛 骂 吗 祃 蚂 犸 杩 all contain the 马 shape, and are all variations on ma
(although with different tones). However you can't make a general rule and say all characters with
马 will sound like ma, because then you have characters like 驾 jià and 驶 shǐ with
completely different pronunciations. Looking at those two characters, you can see the phonetic
part quite easily, 加 and 史 respectively. Once again, you have a whole range of characters that
might use 加 as the phonetic compenent e.g. 嘉 架 茄 伽 迦 枷, however, like before there
are always exceptions, e.g. 贺 hè.

So, yes there are patterns, but they're all irregular and the only real way to learn them is to
accumulate knowledge about many characters. There's no magic shortcut to this. Regardless of
whatever technique you use to learn and remember characters, it just takes time.










renzhe -



Quote:

could someone elaborate on the "phonetic" parts of characters.

Take the character 旦 as an example. It is pronounced "dan4", and means dawn.

It appears in several other characters:

担 dan1, "carry", radical hand
但 dan4, "but", radical man
胆 dan3, "gall", radical meat/organ

In each case, the pronunciation is taken from the "旦" part of the character, and the meaning is
related to the radical.

Many Chinese characters have this form (80% or so). Unfortunately, it is not always this easy. But
once you learn enough characters, it can really help you remember the pronunciation. While it
doesn't really provide complete phonetic information (I believe it did many centuries ago, but not
in modern Mandarin), it can often give you very useful hints about pronouncing a character.

Edit: imron beat me to it, with a better explanation.










muyongshi -



Quote:

Take the character 旦 as an example. It is pronounced "dan4", and means dawn.

And just one example of where this can spread, take on a slightly different pronunciation, but the
radical still brings the pronunciation 坦 tan










roddy -

And when you look at the characters 量liáng, 查chá and 昼zhoù, all of which have the 旦
component, you can see how useful this approach is

Personally I'm skeptical that there's going to be many 'breakthroughs' in something that's been
around for 5,000 years. By all means get the book and read it - I'm sure it'll help you learn
characters. But there are hundreds of character-learning books around that will do the same.










renzhe -

I agree that phonetic parts don't form a consistent and logical framework, but they can lead to
easier memorisation in many cases, at least they have helped me.

But coming back to the topic, it would be interesting to see what this book says about the example
of "dan". What meaning is associated with the word-root 旦 which could explain the gall, dawn,
carrying and "but".










waynewalter -

Folks, it appears at least some opinions were given without taking time to read the website. So,
for your convenience, I include the specific points which Tienzen Gong said that most impressed
me. Please tell me if you verify this and share if anywhere else has this kind of apparently
highly accurate word root meansing.

For example, this explanation from his website immediately made me able to remember how to
recognize and write this character. (A Chinese friend showed me slight adjustment to my writing
style.)



Quote:

我 is 手 (hand) holding 戈 (spear). A holding spear hand is able to protect himself. Only a
protected self can be a self.
看 (looking) is 手 (hand) over the 目 (eyes).

This might be common knowledge. But he claims that some ideographs don't have their own individual
characters like 手 and 戈 do. So he defines those like this:



Quote:

R1( 歌 、 次 、 欣 、 吹 、 歡 ), the shared radical is the word root.
R2( 行 、 征 、 從 )
R3( 草 、 若 、 花 )
R4 ( 老 、 考 、 孝 )
R5( 青 、 毒 、 素 )

He provides the exact meaning for each of these root symbols.

Also, apparently some of the meanings of these word roots were lost in history and later analyzed
but were mistakenly identified.

An example of one of these was most convincing. Namely, the claim that 馬 (horse) is an evolved
pictograph of a horse. This idea was originated by Hsu in 100 A.D. when he documented Chinese
radicals. That appears in at least some modern books.

Here's what the professor says:



Quote:

Now, I want to show the reason of why 鳥 (bird), 烏 , (black bird), 馬 (horse), 熊 (bear), 魚
(fish) and 羔 (young sheep) are not pictographs.

* Hsu said that the four points under those words are four legs of those animals. Then, is fish
also having four legs?

* 黑 (black), 煮 (cooking), 熱 (hot), 蒸 (streaming), 熬 (stewing) and 熟 (well-cooked) are
having four points in the bottom too. This four point is a different way to write the word 火
(fire), just flattens the four strokes of the word 火 . Thus, the four point in those animals
should also mean fire, to signify that those animals could be cooked as food.

Tienzen Gong says he has complete proof of identifying the accurate meanings all ALL the 220 word
roots so that it's much each to interpret the meaning of characters.

This is so enthralling because, imagine trying to decipher the meaning of the character 熱 (hot)
if you forgot it's meaning by looking at the supposed 4 animal legs underneath it. Ha! But when
you see that those 4 points clearly mean FIRE, then you can look at the other roots and remind
yourself quickly of the correct meaning.

This seems like a breakthrough from my perspective of looking at a few books, taking a class
briefly from a trained former Taiwanese grade school teacher, and the explanation of many Chinese
friends. In fact, my Chinese friends were pleased to learn the actual meaning of 我 is 手 (hand)
holding 戈 (spear). They said it makes sense.

So please, if you really know of any website or books that already have all this knowledge and do
it very accurately like Tienzen Gong then please share that with me.

If you see a flaw in his premise, please point that out also.

Thanks!

Sincerely,
Wayne












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Wednesday, December 10, 2008

Chinese School - Mandarin and Japanese -








> Extras > Other cultures and language
Mandarin and Japanese
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Dean A. Swanson -

Hi,

I've been living in Japan for the past year and have been studying Japanese since I arrived.
Recently I began taking Chinese classes and I have a couple of questions.

In Japanese there are many levels of speech: casual, neutral (polite), honorific and humble. I'm
wondering if the same levels exist in Chinese, particularly Mandarin. In Japanese one has to
constantly be thinking about one's social status as it relates to the people they are speaking
with. It's kind of taken the fun out of learning the language and speaking it. So I'm wondering if
Chinese is more laid back than Japanese in that sense.

Also, there are many English loan words in Japanese. They get annoying after a while, especially
when there are Japanese words that convey the same meaning. Are there many in Chinese?

Anyone studied/currently studying both? Thoughts, opinions?

Thanks in advance.

Peace,

Dean Swanson



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Quest -

Modern Chinese/Mandarin is a casual language much like English. (classical Chinese is another
story though). When there's a native word, the the native word tends to be used. Usually, new
words are invented for new things and ideas using native root words.










studentyoung -



Quote:

In Japanese there are many levels of speech: casual, neutral (polite), honorific and humble. I'm
wondering if the same levels exist in Chinese, particularly Mandarin. In Japanese one has to
constantly be thinking about one's social status as it relates to the people they are speaking
with.

In Chinese, the kind of concern is not so strongly appears in the level of speech, but just
embodies on tone and polite words (which won’t cause grammatical changes).



Quote:

Also, there are many English loan words in Japanese. They get annoying after a while, especially
when there are Japanese words that convey the same meaning. Are there many in Chinese?

As to those English loan words in Japanese, I understand how you feel completely. Hehe. Yes, there
are some English loan words in Chinese, but they are not as many as those in Japanese. For
example, 迪斯科 is disco.



Quote:

Anyone studied/currently studying both? Thoughts, opinions?

Please pay more attention on the differences between Chinese and Japanese. For example, there are
some Chinese characters do look like Japanese ones, sometimes they might share the same or similar
meaning with their Japanese counterpart, but sometimes they don’t share any meaning with their
Japanese counterpart.

Anyway, good luck!

Cheers!










fireball9261 -



Quote:

In Japanese there are many levels of speech: casual, neutral (polite), honorific and humble. I'm
wondering if the same levels exist in Chinese, particularly Mandarin. In Japanese one has to
constantly be thinking about one's social status as it relates to the people they are speaking
with.

In a more formal setting or talking to someone who is your elder or your boss or your teacher,
Chinese also use certain words that are more respectful and formal. For example, use "您 nin2"
instead of "你 ni3". However, in everyday life, Chinese are pretty relaxed about it. I doubt any
Chinese would be offended by a foreigner who is just learning how to speak Chinese. We are a very
understanding people. Just make sure you know your Chinese "please", "thank you", and "sorry" and
maintain respectful manners, you will be fine.



Quote:

Also, there are many English loan words in Japanese. They get annoying after a while, especially
when there are Japanese words that convey the same meaning. Are there many in Chinese?

Not as much as Japanese. A lot of early words from English were actually translated into well
thought out Chinese phrases. For example: Telephones became "electric words". Trains became "fire
cars". Automobiles became "air cars". The newer words sometimes got brought in whole, like disco
or party. However, Coke was translated into "able to be happy", so I think Chinese have not lost
the creativity to adopt and change the language of China yet.



Quote:

Anyone studied/currently studying both? Thoughts, opinions?

I heard a story of a Chinese student who went to Japan in early 20th century. He couldn't speak a
word of Japanese. When he first went into a hotel, he saw the sign of the word "湯". He thought,
"Great! I am hungry for soup. I will order some." He pointed at the sign and indicated he wanted
to have some "湯". Soon after, he was brought to a big tub filled with hot water for taking a
bath! It seems to be the same word, but it means differently in Chinese and in Japanese.

There are some phrases that mean the same in both languages -- maybe pronounced a little off. And
there are also some phrases that look the same but mean totally different things in these two
languages. In addition, the writing forms sometimes are a little bit different also. Those are the
things you need to pay attention on.










studentyoung -



Quote:

I heard a story of a Chinese student who went to Japan in early 20th century. He couldn't speak a
word of Japanese. When he first went into a hotel, he saw the sign of the word "湯". He thought,
"Great! I am hungry for soup. I will order some." He pointed at the sign and indicated he wanted
to have some "湯". Soon after, he was brought to a big tub filled with hot water for taking a
bath! It seems to be the same word, but it means differently in Chinese and in Japanese.

Hehe. In fact, one of the meanings of “汤 / 湯” in ancient Chinese (古代汉语) does mean
“hot bathing water”. You can easily find“香汤沐浴 bath with hot fragrant water” in
many ancient Chinese story books.

Of course, “汤” means “soup” in modern Chinese.

Cheers!










fireball9261 -

Actually, I think it might be good to bath in some of the Cantonese herbal soups.










Dean A. Swanson -

Thanks for the replies, everyone. It's nice to get some feedback on this.

Peace,

Dean










nipponman -

I study both and I must say that even though Japanese is harder than mandarin to study, don't
sleep on mandarin cuz it'll get you with subtlety and nuance.










zozzen -

This is an interesting topic. While honorific and humbles tones are less common, which dialects
reserve most of these ancient expressions and tones in modern china?

From time to time i can still hear the words like:
小弟(fairly common for cantonese)、
勞駕(heard it only in mandarin textbooks but never in real life)
犬兒 (in movies only)
大爺(sometimes in mandarin)
千金 (sometimes in cantonese)
少爺 (very common in cantonese)
內子(mostly in written form)

I'm wondering if hokkien, fujian and teochew would do better job at reserving these ancient
expressions.

And when I was young (and i'm still quite young ), the official letter was written in the style
such as "某某先生敬鑒" 、"晚某某人拜上" . Does anyone still use this today?










atitarev -



Quote:

Nipponman wrote: I study both and I must say that even though Japanese is harder than mandarin to
study, don't sleep on mandarin cuz it'll get you with subtlety and nuance.

I personally, don't find Japanese harder, despite inflections, politeness levels and more grammar
rules. My reason is - it's much easier to break up sentences into meaningful parts and link words
into sentences.

My observation is about reading intermediate to advanced texts. I still have to segment mentally
words, which can be sometimes difficult in Chinese long sentences.

Perhaps my readings skills are slowed down by having to deal with much more characters compared to
Japanese but I feel that after spending more time with Mandarin than I spent with Japanese, my
Japanese is still a little better than my Mandarin. The worst thing that stresses me out about
Japanese, though is some colloquial forms I don't understand, I find it much easier to read formal
or standard texts.












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Tuesday, December 9, 2008

Chinese Character - Pitfalls to avoid looking for teaching jobs in China? -








> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Teaching English in
China
Pitfalls to avoid looking for teaching jobs in China?
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-葛亚辉- -

So, I'm looking to do this as soon as I graduate....I've been to China before, I speak pretty
decent Chinese, and I have teaching experience. I also have an impeccable academic record at a
very good American University.

I DON'T have a TEFL/TESOL certification....a lot of the jobs I see (daves esl cafe, etc) require
these it seems, but some don't...are the places that don't require one unreliable? Is it worth
getting one or can I get a job without one?

Also, I've heard some horror stories about schools that refuse to pay, etc etc....any advice on
how to spot the sketchy places while jobhunting?

Also, if anyone knows of good jobs, I'm looking for something ideally in the northeast but NOT
Beijing....I dislike Beijing.



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AxelManbow -

The best place in the Northeast is Dalian, but I'm biased having come here and not want to leave!

The Northeast can get pretty cold. Check the average annual temps, etc, an example for Harbin.
Check out local community sites too - get impressions from the locals.

If you have strong academics and a strong university behind you, and are quite career focused,
don't devalue your CV by working in an average churn-burn language school. I'd recommend a
university, and a better university at that. Universities tend to pay less than language schools,
but they also tend to be more reliable, lower stress, more focused on adding-value - designing
curriculums, etc. At least that's my impression. Approach them directly and call them too, as many
universities don't utilise/check their email.

I don't think a 2 week TEFL certificate adds much at all. There are some qualifications which may
be better, like CELTA, but those courses are longer and more expensive.

The legal requirement for getting a work visa, at least in Liaoning, is a university degree and at
least 2 years' work experience in your home country. 'Find' some work experience before applying.
You have teaching experience - all the better.










-葛亚辉- -

sounds good, thanks!

and yeah, I know about the Northeast, I was in Harbin this summer...cold weather i can handle, and
I love 东北人...so i want to go back..


what i'm trying to do is get a job at 哈工大, actually, cuz I have some friends who are
students there at the moment. You're right that they don't seem to ever check their email,
though...










-葛亚辉- -

http://www.chinateachonline.com/en/index.htm

trustworthy?










liuzhou -

I don't know about trustworthy, but a lot of their information is well out of date.












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Monday, December 8, 2008

Learning Mandarin - Help teaching English to Chinese postgrads -








> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Teaching English in
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Help teaching English to Chinese postgrads
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Colossus -

Hi,

I thought I would write my dilemma here to see if someone could give me some assistance.

I am currently teaching English to Chinese postgraduate students and I was wondering if anyone had
any suggestions on interesting class suggestions. I am drawing a blank currently. One of my
biggest problems is that I feel like I don't have enough resources to do a good job. For example,
I have search the various ESL databases, but I've pulled up next to nothing. Why? Because most of
them seem to be directed at teaching English as a second language IN THE USA or some other English
speaking country.

Here, the kids are not motivated and exceedingly nervous about looking stupid in front of their
fellow classmates. I will literally ask them a yes/no question and there will be complete and
utter silence. I will ask them to raise their hand and I will be lucky if I see some hands peek
above the desk.

So, does anyone have any experience teaching upper level college kids English IN CHINA? I would
greatly appreciate the opportunity to pick your brain.



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roddy -

Moving to the Teaching English forum . . .










simonlaing -

Make the class meaningful if possible.

How big is the class? Sometimes it is hard to get people to speak if the class it too big?

Other times it can be that their level is very low?
What is their postgrad major? Perhaps that can help.

I taught various levels of older students.
Sometimes it can be that the students have come straight to grad school and have no life
experience. so if you ask them questions about jobs they will have no idea.

Other times they will be extremely intelligent but have never been asked to speak in class before.
I had a beginner english class with some Bank Audit leaders who were over 35 but were obviously
very clever. I had trouble because the amount of time I had was difficult.
I was still able tap into their knowledge base to make it interesting by using the names of famous
people in an Adjective comparing lesson. Who was more handsome Mao or Zhou Enlai? Bush Jr. or Bill
Clinton.
Don't feel that just because they are postgrad you can't play word games where they compete with
each other for the answer. Also providing opportuinities for role plays after vocab and dialogue
practice has been done works well.

Try and get word lists and simple dialogues from online or the local bookstore. Use them as a
foundation and the build from there.

Another intermediate level group I had them prepare powerpoint presentations about their hometowns
or activities they like to do.

If they have the vocabulary debates about certain social issues could be interesting. Anyway,
remember to make it safe to answer questions. (Sometimes asking group questions and having people
raise their hands works.)
Praising a wrong answer as a good try before correcting them will make the students feel like it
is worth trying and losing face because you still praised them.

Make sure to adjust difficulty to the right level or they could be frustrated or worse bored!
Good luck,
have fun,
Simon










wushijiao -

Another thing you could do, for any speaking topic, is have them first speak in pairs or small
groups for two or three minutes. Meanwhile, go around the room and listen to what they are saying
(trying not to be too obtrusive). That might be good because 1) it sounds like you need to get a
better feel for their levels 2) it will give them more speaking time, and 3) you can always say,
"Jimmy, I liked what you were saying with Xiao Wang. Could you tell the class what you were saying
please."

I taught at the colleges for six years in China, including MBA students. I think what you have to
remember is that just because they are in "university", that does not necessarily mean they have
any communicative skills in English. On the other hand, most students have a tremendous amount of
passive knowledge (ie. they know a lot of individual words, and grammar). But, they have never had
a situation in the past in which they had to take that passive knowledge and make it active,
through talking with a native speaker. So, in other words, they have been studying English for
twelve years, but might still be at a beginner's level, communication-wise. As you could imagine,
that would be psychologically depressing as hell. And many students are their own worst critics,
as far as their English abilities.

Therefore, you job is partly to be a motivational cheerleader of sorts. You should praise a
student in front of the whole class any time he or she does something genuinely well. You should
also try to create a safe atmosphere in which saying stupid things or wrong things is ok. But
don't worry too much. That atmosphere can take a few classes to make. The students have to feel
comfortable with each other, as well as with you.

So, I think the activities simon mentioned are good. The challenge is to find topic that they find
interesting. My guess is that that might include topics about China, topics about their new life
in the US, social issues....etc. Normal dialogues are good.

Also, I used to run my classes by having the name list and then I would just call on people by
name. Why? That way you make sure to get everybody talking. Also, if there are vast discrepancies
in the level of students in one class, the students who are competent in English won't talk
because they don't want to show off. The students who are less competent won't talk because they
don't want to look stupid. Then, as the semester moved on, and as the class environment started to
get better, I'd use the list less and less, and just rely on the students to volunteer to talk.










fireball9261 -

I was training some software engineers in Shanghai at one time, and they had the same reaction.
When I asked a question, I faced total silence. Therefore, I also called out people to answer the
questions to make sure everyone will participate. However, before I did that, I always warned them
first that I would start calling someone so that they would have chances to raise their hands
voluntarily.

I would also suggest that you could share some personal experiences of learning another language
to let the students let down their guards. I think they are also afraid you will laugh at them, so
if you can make them feel comfortable with you, they will have better reactions. Good luck!










imron -

Never ask questions cold and expect students to answer it. If you have a question you'd like
students to answer, first give them a few minutes to discuss it in English, either in pairs or
small groups. This works wonders for their confidence as it gives them time to prepare an answer.
It also means that if no-one volunteers an answer you can pick on anyone and they should have at
least some answer prepared, which again might not be the case if you just ask them cold.

The trick is then to make sure they are only speaking in English during this preparation time. One
good way to get them to do this is to have a "punishment" for speaking in Chinese. When I was
teaching, at the beginning of the semester, I'd teach my (college level) students the nursery
rhyme "I'm a little teapot", including the actions that go with it. Then, if I ever heard anyone
speaking Chinese in class, they had to come up the front by themselves and sing the song/perform
the actions. After the first one or two lessons, no-one would speak in Chinese anymore

Finally, try to plan tasks/activities so that students spend time talking to each other in groups
or pairs rather than separately speaking with you, (again, only allow them to speak in English).
During the activity you can then go around to each group/pair and give them help as needed. Once
the activity/task has finished, randomly choose one or two groups/pairs to discuss their
answers/views with the class. Do things like this ends up keeping most people occupied most of the
time (so they don't get bored and distracted), and the random selection of people to discuss the
activity afterwards makes sure that people stick to the activity because they never know if
they'll be the ones chosen to talk.










roddy -

On questioning: You need to
a) ask a question, then nominate someone to respond. If you nominate then ask, the rest of the
class will fall asleep.
b) keep it random. If you go round the class in order everyone will fall asleep till it is their
turn. Every now and then ask the same person three questions in a row. Ideally someone who's been
sending text messages.
c) keep them listening to each other. After A answers ask B if he thinks that was the right answer.
d) challenge them. Are you sure? Are you really sure? Look disappointed and ask them if they want
to change their answer.

Another thing you can do is ask the whole class a question - say it's a yes / no question,
students raise right hand for yes, left hand for no, and everyone has to raise one hand or the
other.

Something else I found worked well is to give them a bunch of questions to do in groups, then get
them to scribble their answers up on the board. Then you tell them how many each group has got
right - but not which ones. They then get another few minutes to discuss and adjust answers, and
you repeat this until they've got them all right.

Say you've got multiple choice questions and a classroom layout that allows it, identify each
corner as A, B, C or D. For each question then have to go and stand in the corner they think is
correct and then persuade each other to come and join them in the 'correct corner'.

For speaking activities they're likely going to be shy to talk about their own opinions that much.
So give them opinions. Group A, you believe WTO entry will be a disaster for the Chinese economy.
Group B, you believe . . . Get them to brainstorm potential points to make onto paper before
expecting them to say anything.










Rincewind -

I have taught college students and adult post grads in China for about 2 years now. Chinese course
in English tend to concentrate on high vocabulary, grammar and reading comprehension. They are
typically week on listening and very week on speaking or creative writing (more than one
sentence). However, once prodded, they do pick up these aspects very quickly. The trick is to prod
correctly.

At this level, there is little left in any ESL text book that they haven't done already. You have
to shift them up form second language to native fluency. The only way to do that is to immerse
them in real English. Not English written for learning, but the English written for native
speakers to enjoy. I stop teaching them English as start teaching them other subjects in English.
So I will do classes on history, geography, and even once I did a class on mathematics (we did
Pythagoras and basic calculus). As you go along, you will need to pause to explain the new
vocabulary or idioms. This way you push them onto subjects that would not come up the text books.

Usually I get them to teach me something rather than me lecture to them. This can be hit of miss
depending on whither the class knows about the topic or not. As a fall back, you should swat up on
the subject yourself before asking them. So you are always asking questions that you already know
the answer for. It does help if students prepare for the class topic in advance, however in
practice they rarely do.

Try to adapt your materials to China. For example, the food lessons in my textbooks aways have the
same list of apples, bananas, pizza, hamburgers and so on. I have a load of photos on flash cards
with vegetables form the local grocer shop. It contains all the things that Chinese people really
eat. So you get to teach them vocabulary like Egg plant, pumpkin, leeks, cabbage, pepper and so
on. I was particularly fortunate today as one of my students had been shopping before class and
had here bag with her. So I raided her bag (at her suggestion) and covered a wide range of items
such as tofu, hazel nuts, pine kernels, sea weed, beef tendons, dried sweet potato and raisins.
When you make the vocabulary relevant to their own lives, they have more interest in the topic.

One good activity to get the students talking to each other is to take a article or poem, cut it
into 4 sections and stick one section on each wall of the class room. The students should be
grouped in teams of two. One student is of each team is to write the article but is not allowed to
get up off his seat. The other student may move round the class but is not allowed to write. They
have to read the article out loud and listen to each other. The first team to present me with the
complete, word perfect and punctuation perfect article wins.

Another lesson plan is based round a word of the day. For example take the work 'intelligence'.
Write it on the board. Solicit the words meaning. Ask the students who they know (a famous person)
who is intelligent. Write the names given on the board. Try to get half a dozen names. Now ask why
these people are intelligent. Write the reasons as keywords next the each persons name. So you
will get answers like Eddison - Science. If you can discus the biography of each person with the
class. This will in part depend on your own personal knowledge of these people however you usually
get the same bunch of names each time (since they give the names out their science and history
textbooks) so you soon will know enough. Next rub out the names leaving just the reasons. Try to
expand on this list adding more ways someone could be intelligent. So you end up with a list like,
science, music, leadership, art, maths, sport, calligraphy, linguistics, etc. Next give the
students some questions that from an IQ test. Try to pick one questions form each of the buzz
words in the list on the board. So one question might be math based, another will be linguistic
and so on. Lastly, hand out a questionnaire like you get in teenage magazines where you tick good,
average, bad next to a set of questions then total your points to see what skills you have and
what areas you lack in.

Similar plans can be made round other words such as communication, water, transport and such.










Senzhi -



Quote:

Try to adapt your materials to China. For example, the food lessons in my textbooks aways have the
same list of apples, bananas, pizza, hamburgers and so on. I have a load of photos on flash cards
with vegetables form the local grocer shop. It contains all the things that Chinese people really
eat. So you get to teach them vocabulary like Egg plant, pumpkin, leeks, cabbage, pepper and so
on. I was particularly fortunate today as one of my students had been shopping before class and
had here bag with her. So I raided her bag (at her suggestion) and covered a wide range of items
such as tofu, hazel nuts, pine kernels, sea weed, beef tendons, dried sweet potato and raisins.
When you make the vocabulary relevant to their own lives, they have more interest in the topic.

I don't think that is necessarily true: I, in learning Chinese am also more interested in the
Chinese meaning of dumpling (etc.) than in hamburger (also etc.) ... even though I may not know or
understand all Chinese food.

Personally, I believe language courses are not only about language but also about the cultures
that use that language. So I stick with the things we find in the several cultures that use
English as a native language. Or for more specific business English, in the international business
culture (outside China).

I did like the remainder of your post though.










Rincewind -



Quote:

I don't think that is necessarily true: I, in learning Chinese am also more interested in the
Chinese meaning of dumpling (etc.) than in hamburger (also etc.) ... even though I may not know or
understand all Chinese food.

I understand your point. To an extent both are true. Part of the lesson should be about expanding
their horizons so they understand food from other places but at the same time you also have to
build a vocabulary. Experience of an item makes it much easier to learn it a vocabulary. Today's
class was on food (which is why my brain was focused on that last night when writing my post). The
book had words like 'cereal' for breakfast and one passage mentioned eating black eyed peas with
collard greens. For students who have never seen a box of cheerios or similar, there is no way
they can understand cereal so they can't learn this vocabulary. As for the black eyed peas and
collard greens -- I've never eaten these myself so I can't explain them to the students.

The same is true in reverse. If you had not been to china and had never eaten dumplings then you
would not easily learn the words jiaozi or baozi and you would probably not understand the
difference between them. Once you have seen (and maybe eaten) these foods, you can learn the names
of them much more easily.

My solution to expanding horizons, as far as food is concerned, is to make the food and take it to
class. Last Christmas I took in sausage rolls. When one book I was teaching in school had the word
'toffee apple' I made toffee apples and took them into class. During summer, I bought a large
variety of cheese and brought them in so now the students have a vocabulary that includes brie,
camembert, Edam, cheddar and philadelphia. There is no way they would have learned any word beyond
'cheese' without personal experience.

In case anyone is interested, they liked Edam and brie. They didn't like cheddar. Favorite was
German smoked cheese and philadelphia cream cheese which I now sell to the students and my
colleagues.












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Sunday, December 7, 2008

Chinese Speaking - Short Story by 郁达夫 (Yu Dafu) - 春风沉醉的晚上 (Spring Night) - Page 3 -









> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues > Book of the Month
Short Story by 郁达夫 (Yu Dafu) - 春风沉醉的晚上 (Spring Night)
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文言訓開班 -

Thanks, Gato. I know in several dialects, one still 食(吃)茶 rather than 喝茶. Wait, doesn't
one 吃汤?



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gato -

Right. 喝 might not even exist in Shanghainese, but my Shangainiese is a bit rusty.










imron -



Quote:

Wait, doesn't one 吃汤?

Up here in the north, people 喝汤 and also 喝粥.










文言訓開班 -

well, here in new york, you EAT soup, or you go to bed hungry!
(where are you two?)










imron -












muyongshi -



Quote:

well, here in new york, you EAT soup, or you go to bed hungry!

Remember to NOT compare the 说法's of two completely different languages. In 北方语 you can
only say 喝. This is one of the bigger problems for students of Chinese as most usually want to
say eat soup but in Mandarin (not a clue about shanghai) you have to say drink.

Try not to do that type of comparison...










文言訓開班 -

Alright! So, I've just finished 春风沉醉的晚上....I was a bit overzealous in my previous
excitement over this story. It seems this was, as was pointed out, sort of a clip of his life over
the span of like a week. I got hints of some exciting themes, but I got no conclusion here. What
do you guys think, what was this story about?










muyongshi -

Showing how shitty his life was....

Didn't get much else about "what it was about" than that. Still thought it was a good short story.










studentyoung -



Quote:

Showing how shitty his life was....

Objection! (Cultural shock again!) At least, he could 坐怀不乱, like柳下惠! How about
compare him with James Bond 007, who takes ”sex for dinner, death for breakfast”.



Quote:

成语:坐怀不乱
【解释】:春秋时鲁国的柳下惠将受冻的女子裹于怀中,没有发生非礼行为�
��形容男子在两性关系方面作风正派。

http://www.zdic.net/cy/ch/ZdicE5Zdic9DZdic9026523.htm

Cheers!










muyongshi -



Quote:

Objection! (Cultural shock again!) At least, he could 坐怀不乱, like柳下惠! How about
compare him with James Bond 007, who takes ”sex for dinner, death for breakfast”.

Okay I can live with this just let it be noted that my comment did not entail any sort of
reference to how he lived his life, or his character through it. I simply was talking about the
circumstances....












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Saturday, December 6, 2008

Learn Chinese online - Learning to write, finally. - Page 2 -








> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Learning to write, finally.
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muyongshi -



Quote:

writing is legible it is ok.

What counts as legible????



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heifeng -

yes, your Chinese 'writting' (hehe) will get better . The longest duration of my actual 'journal'
writing (or at least a notebook with somewhat frequent entries) lasted for over a year. A year or
so after graduation I realized that I had forgotten so much of what i had learned. After writing
for a while I saw some improvements and after more than a year I looked back and could see very
significant overall improvement and was able to correct my millions of cuobie zi and grammar, and
a bunch of other thing I had written incorrectly before. (Although I did learn characters the old
fashion, actually writing on paper way during my elementary Chinese classes, we were usually
encouraged to type our papers in Chinese, so I definitely ran into problems later on b/c of this)
However, keeping a journal and looking back did indeed cause me to chuckle...

and one day I hope I can say the same for my English










gato -



Quote:

What counts as legible????

I think it'd be very hard to say in words, but you'll know when you see it. What would say if you
are asked what's considered legible handwriting in English?










889 -

It's boring as can be, but writing out text over and over and over seems the best way to automate
those hand and finger movements.

And have someone look over your shoulder from time to time before any bad habits become ingrained.










muyongshi -



Quote:

(Although I did learn characters the old fashion, actually writing on paper way during my
elementary Chinese classes, we were usually encouraged to type our papers in Chinese, so I
definitely ran into problems later on b/c of this)

What I do especially when I was first learning and having to write a paper I would type it first
so I wouldn't lose my train of thought as I struggled through characters or if I completely forget
on all together...Then I would copy it onto paper (my teachers would prefer it written to help my
writing but there is only ever a max of 2 people in my class besides me so it's not a problem). I
found this worked in 3 ways: 1) Helped me get my thoughts down 2) Rewrite helped me with the
characters 3) Rewrite also let me find my mistakes and places where it just wasn't well written...

I still use this method now but mainly for reason 3...










gougou -



Quote:

was able to correct my millions of cuobie zi

How do you do that, when you are writing for yourself? I would imagine that you just keep on using
them. Or is your diary publicly accessible? I quite enjoy those random rants you post on here










gato -



Quote:

Handwriting input for SMS is a good idea. My current phone can't do it, but it does have stroke
order input, and I've been thinking of splashing out on a new device lately, so . . .

You can do this on the PC, too, when you are writing the odd email in Chinese or posting on
中文角 here.

This free Windows-based handwriting recognition IME that I mentioned in another thread seems to be
very good. I have a graphics pad. It might be harder with a mouse. But give it a try. It's free.
http://www. /showth...723#post127723
飘雪智能手写辨识系统 V3.0










heifeng -



Quote:

Or is your diary publicly accessible?

omigod, I tore up and flushed my old diary after my first year in China once I got passed that
writing 'hump'. The writing was so bad I didn't want anyone to see it's contents. Although I
consider that journal the dark ages of my Chinese writing it did serve it's purpose.

On as far as how to correct cuobie zi, later on, when you are no longer completely 'guessing'
you'll discover you either had no idea what you were writing or mindlessly wrote the wrong
character. I personally had some crazy cuobie zi so later on it was easy to find them...I mean I
literally made up how to write characters or left off radicals, (or even worse only had the
radical correct), added or deleted the dian stroke somewhere, or wrote another character with the
same pinyin.

OR you can get a friend to look at your writing and circle the problem characters. It will also
cause him or her to chuckle. So don't be shy go ahead and make someone's day










gougou -



Quote:

So don't be shy go ahead and make someone's day

Should anybody feel so inclined, may I recommend this thread.










DrWatson -

Roddy, thank you for your post. I now know what it feels like to experience schadenfreude.

Like you, somewhere along the way I quit trying to remember how to write the characters. This
happend to me when I stopped formal study in the classroom and started working full-time. In
formal classes all essays and assignments had to be handwritten but in the professional world
everything is done with a computer. And like you, I tried intially by using words rather than
characters. I ended up not being able to continuous with this way for the same reason--it was too
time consuming. So I ended up following a character list (the JLPT for me since I'm based out of
Japan). I practice writing the traditional form of the character, and then remember the
pronunciation in Mandarin and Japanese. It is slow when I go by characters, but I don't get as
tired of it. When I was doing it with words it was just getting overwhelming.

For handingwriting, I gave up on ball pens. I recommend getting the "brush" style felt pens that a
lot of people use for writting addresses on envelops and what not. With those pens you have to
force yourself to be a little more careful. At first it was not going well because it took longer
to write, but after I became used to writing with these pens, as well as correctly following
stroke orders, I feel more comfortable.

As for writing speed, I honestly haven't found an answer to it. I don't think I'll ever write as
fast as I can in English, and I'm not sure how to quit thinking about the shape of the characters
that are more than the basic five hundred or so. This is something I guess I have just taken for
granted. When I watch my Taiwanese friends or Japanese coworkers write they use a shorthand to
make it quicker. I guess that is really the only way to speed things up.

As for practicing, I can't think of many ways. For me the only way I get regular practice is when
I take notes. I have always prefered paper and notebooks to computers, so when I am reading
reports or books for work, I take notes in a notebook. The only other way I can think of is
writing letters. But then again it is hard enough to get replies to e-mails these days, letters
would probably take even longer!

The wubi input method also seems like a really good idea though. Seems tough to learn at first,
but it does seem like a good reinforcement method.












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Friday, December 5, 2008

Free Chinese Lesson - Foreigner singing own Chinese rock songs! - Page 2 -








> Chinese Culture > Music
Foreigner singing own Chinese rock songs!
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zozzen -

the webpage doesn't function well in firefox.

no web video player or mp3 player shown up in this link ... (actually in all other links too)
http://www.wildmonks.com/intro.asp?l...b=2&id=82&js=2

Why don't you plug an ajax player there? I've seen some free plugin in google.



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adrianlondon -



Quote:

many tone mistakes

Not that I've listened/watched, but surely "tone mistakes" are inherent when you're singing?










rezaf -

lu just give me some names. i have been searching for good chinese rock music for a long time.
maybe in taiwan you have something but here in china .










Lu -

I've posted a long list of bands and singers once or twice in threads in the music forum,
shouldn't be too hard to find there.










Saberu -

Theres loads of good Chinese rock singers. The group Mayday (Wu Yue Tian) for example. The
ignorance of some people is astounding!










rezaf -

i am trying, .. but is 五月天 the best chinese rock? i give up










renzhe -



Quote:

lu just give me some names. i have been searching for good chinese rock music for a long time.
maybe in taiwan you have something but here in china

www.rockinchina.com will tell you all you need to know. They have podcasts and mp3 samples too.
For the rest, look at mp3.baidu.com

What sort of rock music do you like anyway? Alternative, jazzy, thrash metal, punk?

Regardless of style, I really like Happy Avenue, ReTROS, SMZB and Glorious Pharmacy. Cui Jian is
awesome, but somewhat dated. Second Hand Rose Band mixes traditional singing with rock music, I
like it but it may not be everyone's cup of tea.

All of those are really good.










rezaf -

i like jazz fusion, nu metal, alternative, progressive rock and some of the more artistic heavy
metal bands.i think good rock music tends to bring up politics from time to time and that's one of
the reasons that it is rare in china.










renzhe -

You may like Glorious Pharmacy (quite jazzy, very quirky), Mu Ma (alternative/hardcore) and Yaksa
(nu metal. sometimes reminiscent of RAtM). Some Hollow is also interesting.

Check the www.rockinchina.com site, they list hundreds of bands with biographies and links to
their sites. Pick the ones that sound interesting to you, find their Chinese names and try finding
samples on baidu.

Also, check out this thread












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