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Dean A. Swanson -

Hi,

I've been living in Japan for the past year and have been studying Japanese since I arrived.
Recently I began taking Chinese classes and I have a couple of questions.

In Japanese there are many levels of speech: casual, neutral (polite), honorific and humble. I'm
wondering if the same levels exist in Chinese, particularly Mandarin. In Japanese one has to
constantly be thinking about one's social status as it relates to the people they are speaking
with. It's kind of taken the fun out of learning the language and speaking it. So I'm wondering if
Chinese is more laid back than Japanese in that sense.

Also, there are many English loan words in Japanese. They get annoying after a while, especially
when there are Japanese words that convey the same meaning. Are there many in Chinese?

Anyone studied/currently studying both? Thoughts, opinions?

Thanks in advance.

Peace,

Dean Swanson



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Quest -

Modern Chinese/Mandarin is a casual language much like English. (classical Chinese is another
story though). When there's a native word, the the native word tends to be used. Usually, new
words are invented for new things and ideas using native root words.










studentyoung -



Quote:

In Japanese there are many levels of speech: casual, neutral (polite), honorific and humble. I'm
wondering if the same levels exist in Chinese, particularly Mandarin. In Japanese one has to
constantly be thinking about one's social status as it relates to the people they are speaking
with.

In Chinese, the kind of concern is not so strongly appears in the level of speech, but just
embodies on tone and polite words (which won’t cause grammatical changes).



Quote:

Also, there are many English loan words in Japanese. They get annoying after a while, especially
when there are Japanese words that convey the same meaning. Are there many in Chinese?

As to those English loan words in Japanese, I understand how you feel completely. Hehe. Yes, there
are some English loan words in Chinese, but they are not as many as those in Japanese. For
example, 迪斯科 is disco.



Quote:

Anyone studied/currently studying both? Thoughts, opinions?

Please pay more attention on the differences between Chinese and Japanese. For example, there are
some Chinese characters do look like Japanese ones, sometimes they might share the same or similar
meaning with their Japanese counterpart, but sometimes they don’t share any meaning with their
Japanese counterpart.

Anyway, good luck!

Cheers!










fireball9261 -



Quote:

In Japanese there are many levels of speech: casual, neutral (polite), honorific and humble. I'm
wondering if the same levels exist in Chinese, particularly Mandarin. In Japanese one has to
constantly be thinking about one's social status as it relates to the people they are speaking
with.

In a more formal setting or talking to someone who is your elder or your boss or your teacher,
Chinese also use certain words that are more respectful and formal. For example, use "您 nin2"
instead of "你 ni3". However, in everyday life, Chinese are pretty relaxed about it. I doubt any
Chinese would be offended by a foreigner who is just learning how to speak Chinese. We are a very
understanding people. Just make sure you know your Chinese "please", "thank you", and "sorry" and
maintain respectful manners, you will be fine.



Quote:

Also, there are many English loan words in Japanese. They get annoying after a while, especially
when there are Japanese words that convey the same meaning. Are there many in Chinese?

Not as much as Japanese. A lot of early words from English were actually translated into well
thought out Chinese phrases. For example: Telephones became "electric words". Trains became "fire
cars". Automobiles became "air cars". The newer words sometimes got brought in whole, like disco
or party. However, Coke was translated into "able to be happy", so I think Chinese have not lost
the creativity to adopt and change the language of China yet.



Quote:

Anyone studied/currently studying both? Thoughts, opinions?

I heard a story of a Chinese student who went to Japan in early 20th century. He couldn't speak a
word of Japanese. When he first went into a hotel, he saw the sign of the word "湯". He thought,
"Great! I am hungry for soup. I will order some." He pointed at the sign and indicated he wanted
to have some "湯". Soon after, he was brought to a big tub filled with hot water for taking a
bath! It seems to be the same word, but it means differently in Chinese and in Japanese.

There are some phrases that mean the same in both languages -- maybe pronounced a little off. And
there are also some phrases that look the same but mean totally different things in these two
languages. In addition, the writing forms sometimes are a little bit different also. Those are the
things you need to pay attention on.










studentyoung -



Quote:

I heard a story of a Chinese student who went to Japan in early 20th century. He couldn't speak a
word of Japanese. When he first went into a hotel, he saw the sign of the word "湯". He thought,
"Great! I am hungry for soup. I will order some." He pointed at the sign and indicated he wanted
to have some "湯". Soon after, he was brought to a big tub filled with hot water for taking a
bath! It seems to be the same word, but it means differently in Chinese and in Japanese.

Hehe. In fact, one of the meanings of “汤 / 湯” in ancient Chinese (古代汉语) does mean
“hot bathing water”. You can easily find“香汤沐浴 bath with hot fragrant water” in
many ancient Chinese story books.

Of course, “汤” means “soup” in modern Chinese.

Cheers!










fireball9261 -

Actually, I think it might be good to bath in some of the Cantonese herbal soups.










Dean A. Swanson -

Thanks for the replies, everyone. It's nice to get some feedback on this.

Peace,

Dean










nipponman -

I study both and I must say that even though Japanese is harder than mandarin to study, don't
sleep on mandarin cuz it'll get you with subtlety and nuance.










zozzen -

This is an interesting topic. While honorific and humbles tones are less common, which dialects
reserve most of these ancient expressions and tones in modern china?

From time to time i can still hear the words like:
小弟(fairly common for cantonese)、
勞駕(heard it only in mandarin textbooks but never in real life)
犬兒 (in movies only)
大爺(sometimes in mandarin)
千金 (sometimes in cantonese)
少爺 (very common in cantonese)
內子(mostly in written form)

I'm wondering if hokkien, fujian and teochew would do better job at reserving these ancient
expressions.

And when I was young (and i'm still quite young ), the official letter was written in the style
such as "某某先生敬鑒" 、"晚某某人拜上" . Does anyone still use this today?










atitarev -



Quote:

Nipponman wrote: I study both and I must say that even though Japanese is harder than mandarin to
study, don't sleep on mandarin cuz it'll get you with subtlety and nuance.

I personally, don't find Japanese harder, despite inflections, politeness levels and more grammar
rules. My reason is - it's much easier to break up sentences into meaningful parts and link words
into sentences.

My observation is about reading intermediate to advanced texts. I still have to segment mentally
words, which can be sometimes difficult in Chinese long sentences.

Perhaps my readings skills are slowed down by having to deal with much more characters compared to
Japanese but I feel that after spending more time with Mandarin than I spent with Japanese, my
Japanese is still a little better than my Mandarin. The worst thing that stresses me out about
Japanese, though is some colloquial forms I don't understand, I find it much easier to read formal
or standard texts.












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